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Parrots and 1/2 steps.

Ever heard the saying, "you are always within a 1/2 step of a "right" note"?

This is simultaneously true and false. Let's look at some examples using a D major chord, in the key of D major, as an example.

The note D: uhhh....it's a d chord....c'mon now...

The note D#: this one can do down to D or up to E, both consonant.

The Note E: works great!!

The note F: can go up to F# or down to E. YAY!!

The Note F#: Like butter.

The note G: Down to F# or...WAIT!!! up to G#?? nope. The current jazz pedegogy considers the #11(b5) to be consonant over ANY major chord. What they don't tell you is that this particular approach will NEVER yield a "good" sound. Try it. I dare you.

The Note G# or Ab: Up to A is fine. or...OH NO!!! Down to G?? Never. The 11(4) over a major chord is probably the most diagreeable sound in western harmony. #11--->11 is like razors on kittens.

The Note A: works fine all by its lonesome.

The Note Bb: Up to B, yes. Down to A, yes.

The note B: yessir, i like it.

The Note C: down to B works. up to C# works IN THEORY. This is where theory and reality cross swords. This creates an ambiguity in the harmony, that does not work in this isolated context. C-->C#-->D works though. (Bebop dominant scale, or so i hear.)

The note C#: 7th heaven. Technically, this one can "resolve" up also.

Here is a summary of each scale degree:
1: Stay or down
b2: Up or Down
2: Stay
b3: Up or Down
3: Stay
4: Down only
#4: Up only
5: Stay or down(meh)
#5: Up or Down
6: Stay
b7: Down or up(meh)
7: Stay or Up

This only applies if you are considering wether to move a 1/2 step or stay on a note. So next time you hear someone say that you are always within a 1/2 step of a good note, please consider that they may be simply regurgitating information in the same way a parrot does.




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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/11/2011 2:31 PM

WAYNE ELLIOTT (21617) wrote:

The Note G# or Ab: Up to A is fine. or...OH NO!!! Down to G?? Never. The 11(4) over a major chord is probably the most diagreeable sound in western harmony. #11--->11 is like razors on kittens.

Re: AVOID NOTES :
3/29/2010 5:36:42 PM
Adam Furay (1399) wrote:
AND...as if you all arent sick of me already...a Jazz cat i met from NY said that playing a perfect 4th in a major chord, or minor 6th in a minor chord is what they call playing the "3rd rail". I guess NY subways have a 3rd rail, and if you touch it will kill you via electrocution. Interesting, no?

The note G: Down to F# or...WAIT!!! up to G#?? nope. The current jazz pedegogy considers the #11(b5) to be consonant over ANY major chord. What they don't tell you is that this particular approach will NEVER yield a "good" sound. Try it. I dare you.

You dared me.

I tried it.

My cat cut me with a razor!



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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/11/2011 5:23 PM

Adam Furay (1713) wrote:

my disclaimer obsolves me of all liability.



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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/11/2011 7:14 PM

Gar Whitenton (4960) wrote:

your cat thought maybe you were in heat??

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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/12/2011 10:08 AM

Garry Cantrell (3704) wrote:

But the quote is "within a 1/2 step of a 'right' note." Not "within a 1/2 step either way of a 'right' note."



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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/12/2011 7:43 PM

Adam Furay (1713) wrote:

yeah, pretty useless info if you ask me, considering all of the variables I very clearly pointed out.

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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/15/2011 10:10 AM

Dan Gable (7926) wrote:

Adam a great little formula you came up with using subs over chords while walking. the way I was taught is the same point just a different way of explaining it. Eventually when your thinking in steps 1,2,3, 5, b7 as a example your fingers will automatically know what steps to use without the too much thinking. a good example is I know a 9th has a hidden small 7th and you can also use a 13th. or use a Maj 6th for a minor small 7th. When playin Major 7ths you really have to be careful you dont go down a half step to a b7th. This sounds bad and clashes.
thank you for a different point of view on a great subject.

Take care,

Dan

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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/17/2011 12:16 AM

Adam Furay (1713) wrote:

are you talking about baseball?? please translate this into notes and chords.

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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/17/2011 3:17 AM

Dan Gable (7926) wrote:

Hi Adam,
LOL! As much as I love baseball. I was using steps(intervals) of the major scale. It is easier for me to think using intervals for me when playing over chords so I do not play a bad note that is out of key. just a general explaination. you can use this with just about any note and chord. Sorry for the confusion. A good jazz player who uses improv thinks in intervals and is easier to apply to the fingerboard without too much thought.
Again thanks for the insight I always learn something from you.
Take care,
Dan

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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/17/2011 3:31 AM

Dan Gable (7926) wrote:

Another good example is When Ralph writes a score. He likes using alot of Maj7ths 9ths, 13th in his writing. A good example is the jazz standard "Watch What Happens" He posted a lesson in 'Just Jazz guitar magazine" And I had to write my own bassline to that score using alot of improv. without losing the melody and also keep a good hip walking bassline that fits. We have played it together on many ocassions for fun and in session. an example is measure 5 and 6 he uses a Bb13 so I used a dominant 7th for a better sounding walking line. there was alot of examples in that score that I had to improv over to avoid bad notes.

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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/17/2011 4:54 AM

Dan Gable (7926) wrote:

Adam, Ralph uses alot of extended triads and double to as many as 4 chords per measure when he wrote for Nelson Riddle, Henry Mancini and Hugo montenegro. Making a hip walking line can be hard to write withoutout changing the sound of the melody. Another example is walking over the extended triads especially when soloing, a good example is knowing that you can use the minor m7b5 (only if there is time you may only have a couple of beats) a good example is Bm7b5 you can use Dm. or just work on the E7 and not use the Bm7b5, they are almost the same chord , E7 9 11 13th(arpeggio), or use the Fo run starting with the E, any number of E7th combinations: like E triad,Bb triad E triad, I learned this from Ralph and by listening to jazz records with this chord change looking at written scores. Also using vision musics virtual jamb tracks to play along to reading chord charts. Another good one is using a Eaug over a double chord of Bm7b5 to E7 and can use the b5 sub of Fm9 too, Treat both chords as E7 . you can even use the C note scale but not my favorite but it works. but normally the m7b5 chord is of a short duration and easier to walk with a hipper sound.. these are the ones I know and work , When walking wise especially over multi chord measures is best kept simple because you do not have alot of beats to work with. for the Bm7b5 a couple beats i will walk R,to b5, or R b3 b5 to R for 4 beats to the E7, but its best to use the original chordal notes on the head. That is what i remember going back through my lesson materials and notes. now it pretty much comes natural to my fingering. But to get there I had to brush up on my theory to where it comes second nature without alot of thought. Thats why I have a hard time explaining things that I learned. Hope this cleared things up. Dan

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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/17/2011 9:29 PM

Clifton Jackson (35274) wrote:

Yo Dan,
I'm so glad that you are here with us!! :^D
Black Hawk
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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/19/2011 11:22 PM

Dan Gable (7926) wrote:

Thanks Clifton,

I am glad your still around here. I mean that. You are one cool laid back dude and you have taught me more than you know. I have been real busy with work and also learing how to Orchestrate big band scores.I am still learning how to put it all together to sound great. It still is a learning experience. You can have all the theory together but the hard part is creativity and being original. Thanks for the feedback. Take care,
Dan

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Re: Parrots and 1/2 steps.

7/20/2011 6:18 PM

Clifton Jackson (35274) wrote:

Yo Dan,
LOL! I'll never leave here!! I Love this site!! Bass of Luck on your Work, what you are doing is way beyond me right now! :^D
Black Hawk
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