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To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

It seems to me that, yes, even on this great musical site(a four page discussion on accoutics""), there seems to be, like everywhere in the world of music, excessive, and even pointless analysis of things that, at the end of the day mean nothing.
The simple question that must be addressed is that why when reading the writtings of the great composers, there is clarity and sense, when on the other hand when reading the great players or musical academics, there is no sense, and in fact the writtings upom most subjects of musical conception-theory, harmony, meter, technique, and the like, written by the best in the field are crappy, nonsensical, and for the most part not very helpful. Check this out for yourself-go to your local library and check out even a basic book on music and you will find it to be mostly pointless. The most we know of Bach, and upon the brown of his own views comes down to the simple point of putting the fingers in the right place at the right time, yet when one reads a musical analysis by a great harvard man on Bach, there is hundreds of pages of nonsensical rubbish, every measure is unclearly analyzed to the point where you do not know what is going on after the first page of the commentary. Yet when Bach speaks it is simple and downright concise, practice and develop the feel, in other words gain confidence through rigourous practice, and henceforth the key and eternal element of music will arise and that is instinct. A biologist may think that they know the wolf, yet are they one.AH"""
Another simple example of this argument is this-video games-you may have played a very physical video game where only practice dicatates the move, and someone watches and says-man-how do you do that-well the person perfoming the move has no answer-for it is now part of the subconcious mind. The mechanism of perfoming this great move is now encoded in the instinctual apparatus of the brain, thus leaving the peformer at a loss for words, I dont know how I do it, I just can.
Thus we are dealing with hundreds of years of musicology written by generations of musicologists who have no real feel for the instinctual underpinnings of what a great composer thinks or really feels, they believe that the composer like themselves were musical robots, devoid of feeling and filled with analysis, scrutininizing every note as if music was written in only one way. Yet Bach and all the rest were inventive, mystic, extremely imaginitive, and of course spontaneous in there music. Thus the anylytic aproach employed by our payed genuises at the universities is largely masterbatory material, or at best it is meaningless.
Thus to conclude this newest rant, remember play, think playing, and question, yet never microscopically analyize your playing; all that this exercize will do is lead to doubt, and double tracking. You will find no certain answers for as we have found all along is that the greatest lesson of music is its mystical subjectivity, and not it scientific certainty. If we try to give music a one and done formula it will cease to exist. Thus feel music, for god sakes dont think it.
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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/10/2010 8:52 AM

Sebastian Beer (4499) wrote:

I once read (here maybe?) that if you want to be a really great musician, you either have to listen to and study EVERYTHING or NOTHING. You either find the niche of a perfect musical yet brand spankin' new sound because you analytically figured out where it is (with your superior musical knowledge - that includes theory) or because you "felt it" in your blank slate theory free mind.

Most of the time, I've found that argument used by the people who don't study music. I have yet to hear anyone like this make great music. Not saying it's impossible - it just hasn't happened to me.

On the other hand, there have been many musicians I've met who found something good in one style, analyzed it using music theory, applied it to another style, and came out with something really cool. Music theory was the tool for them to do that.

Now knowledge of music theory certainly isn't all there is to it. I absolutely agree that you have to "feel" it. Dream Theater are master musicians, they play theoretically complex songs, but unfortunately some of them I just don't feel. So in that sense, I agree with you.

It would be interesting to hear some of your music. Do you have anything online?



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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/10/2010 11:27 AM

Adam Furay (1713) wrote:

you have stumbled in to the "I want to learn about music, but don't have the patience, time, resources, or willingness, so I mask it by debunking the very thing that would probably drag me out of this musical pit of despair" thread. j/k, but there is a shed of truth to that.



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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/13/2010 6:22 PM

Jon Hermansen (3886) wrote:

There are a few rare cases Robert Johnson, and of course Mozart who had that golden ear, I for one do not have that ear, so I am strictly Annalytical in my musical study, or when reading Music, yet I still have to admit that most of the writtings on the subject are garbage, so once again it comes down to finding the right source. This is where the genuis of study comes in, it is not reading everything, it is reading the right things.

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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/10/2010 12:05 PM

Todd Ingram (16004) wrote:

i'm just drool !!!

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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/10/2010 3:01 PM

WAYNE ELLIOTT (21617) wrote:

Is there a finite number of
musical theory things to know ?



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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/10/2010 3:03 PM

Todd Ingram (16004) wrote:

if you spent all your time learning theory you'd have no time to actually play something good.





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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/10/2010 4:06 PM

Adam Furay (1713) wrote:

of course not! But that falls under the common sense category. If you spen dall of your time reading fix-it manuals and never repair a car, you would never get paid. Same with music. Put in the time, and apply it.





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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/13/2010 6:38 PM

Jon Hermansen (3886) wrote:

Once agian Adam you nailed my point, great. Again the key is to find the right sources, that is the hardest part. This is the search. We can all coast with what the moderns say, yet study what the ancients say, and for the sake of our lord, find what the great composers have to say. And the analogy of the mechanic is great, a mechanic who just reads manuals will never really attain the heights, so we, in music, like in all fields, have two components, one is the analytic or disciplinary field, and the second one is the perfomance or compositionary end of it. One with out the other is pointless.



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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/10/2010 4:08 PM

Adam Furay (1713) wrote:

there are some critical basics every musician should have. scales, arpeggios, and under most circumstances sight-reading are skills every musician NEEDS. These are the basic building blocks of music, and until they are mastered and internalized, music will not make a lot of sense.



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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/10/2010 9:06 PM

WAYNE ELLIOTT (21617) wrote:

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/

KNOW YOUR NOTES
THE MAJOR SCALE
THE CIRCLE OF 5THS
INTERVALS
TRIADS
TRIAD INVERSIONS
CHORD SCALE
RELATIVE MAJOR/MINOR
PENTATONIC SCALES
7TH CHORDS
MODES
FINGERBOARD ORGANIZATION
MELODIC PATTERNS

......................

http://musictheoryblog.blogspot.com/

How to study music theory:

The first thing musicians should learn
about music theory is notation:
the staff, clefs, note names, rhythms,
rests, intervals, meter and time
signatures, key signatures, and dynamics.

The next things musicians should
learn are scales and chords (harmony).

The next things to learn are melody,
phrases, and musical forms.

If you have you learned all of the above
then you will have a firm grasp of music theory.


...................

"critical basics every musician should have. scales, arpeggios, and under most circumstances sight-reading are skills every musician NEEDS."


At present I sight-read like a six year old,
... but I know more than nothing.



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Re: To the theorist:(MUST READ SEND ME HATE MAIL LATER)

2/13/2010 6:40 PM

Jon Hermansen (3886) wrote:

Wayne you got it, those are the key elements, and the building blocks of music there is not much else. Especially the part regarding phrasing, to break down a phrase in music is essential, yet 700 pages on the subject written by a monkey is not essential.

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