So, against a G major chord, you are playing G-B-D as your 1-3-5?

That should sound nice against that G, as those are the notes in the chord. Any further articulation to "sounds awful"?

It may be that you just don't like the 3rd. While rather uncommon, I don't see anything particularily wrong with that. Just keep it in mind that it can work differently in different situations, and that situations exist where others will expect it of you.

"Awful" may have been a little strong. I guess in my simple bass lines, I have tried using the R-3-5 and it just doesn't click for me. I tend to use the R-5-octave way more than I should. It just sounds so much cleaner, but it probably makes for some pretty boring bass lines. Maybe its imagination that I lack. As far as which bass books teach this, I've got practically every decent one that has been published and they all basically teach you to expand to the chord tones after the root. Are there rules of thumb with the scale tones and how frequently to use them in your bass lines? I've always heard to use the 2nd as a passing note only. Spend lots of time on the root, the fifth, and the octave. Use the sixth as a passing tone except in certain instances. Any advice here. I know it is very subjective and genre specific, but any advice would help. Thanks for the great comments.

Advice? I don't know I'm the best source for it, but:

In a year or two, I think you'll end up using 3 more than you think you will. For now, when playing "from" yourself, feel free to use it sparingly.

My take on increasingly-complex (melodically) bass lines is:
1/ root
2/ chord notes
3/ non-chordal scalar notes
4/ non-scalar notes. Each step can be more interesting, as well as making a bigger mess if mis-used.

I think you are getting good theory, & that theory is good to learn, know, & grow with. But I suggest you also pursue your own expression & musical inclinations. One problem with playing "by the book" is that the book never would have been written if all people ever did was play by the book.

One problem with playing "by the book" is that the book never would have been written if all people ever did was play by the book.
.............

Well, there would have been no
need for the second book anyway!

I always like your {{"EDISON'S"}}.
I know you know what I mean.

Awful WAS a bit strong. Thirds are beautiful! Go here to my Myspace page and check out the first song "Thunder And Lightning"

Dave Magaro

The opening chord I hit in that song is a D-Major third. But I hit single note thirds in the chorus. At the beginning When I drop down to the C I actually hit a dimminished 5th chord in there. How in the Hell did I get away with such a thing on the bass guitar? Listen to how bright the bass is and I'm not playing low on the neck. You need at least SOME high end in there for clarity. Now granted that song is a bit on the thin side for bass. But, you need some high end in there for clarity PERIOD! Are you sure your sound isn't EQ with too much low end? Thirds are a beautiful thing, but most of the time you won't want to hang there for a measure if you are on lower notes. The higher you play the more you can get away with. But, I use thirds down low ALL the time! A third is what MAKE a chord. If you are hitting just a fifth and octive what the Hell is it? Is it Major? Is it minor? We have no way of knowing because the third is what will decide that.

Now go back to "Thunder and Lightning" to time 1:34 & 1:36. Those are seconds. How? You have to be hauling ass! Seconds are HORRIBLE sounding too slow. But, if you are doing a little ripping riff like that you can get away with it. At 1:36 our guitarist is playing an A-Major, (He is supposed to be anyway... it sounds like a power chord but it's A-Major) yet my riff there is based on B-Minor. The first note I hit is a B. Did you notice the first time you listened? Hell no you didn't notice it flew by you too fast. But it's a fairly fast riff and you will find a lot of that in a faster riff. If it's a real slow movement you have to be MUCH more selective about the notes you are playing. When the harmony comes in on the second verse that is a third above the lead vocal. Is it not beautiful?

The root is home. The fifth is your neighbor. The octive is your friend across the street. The third is your woman... that's what gives you the emotion. The second is like driving lost through the ghetto... you just gotta hit the gas and get the Hell out of there before you get shot by a drug dealer.

Dave

The root is home. The fifth is your neighbor. The octive is your friend across the street. The third is your woman... that's what gives you the emotion. The second is like driving lost through the ghetto... you just gotta hit the gas and get the Hell out of there before you get shot by a drug dealer.

WOW!

M.

WOW indeed! Now if all my piano lessons as a kid had been like that I might have enjoyed them and learned a helluva lot quicker!

That right there is my favorite Theory lesson of all time.

Thanks Dave! You probably notice I like using analogies.

: )

Dave

Dave, what I notice is you use analogies that friggin' work!! I don't know how many people I've shared your beer can analogy regarding compression/ducking, & this one might get spread around as well.

Which neighbour is the flattened 5th? The frat house in Animal House?

It's your evil Ex-Girlfriend. (see my reply to Paul)

That beer can one was actually something I did. It made perfect sense to the guitarist I was explaining it to. It's a real simple way to explain compression. He had no concept of compression and after that he had a basic understanding of it. Bottom line it worked.

Thanks!

Dave

Sirrah, I bow to your expertise on evil ex's!!

You're welcome!! From all those I've told as well!!

The root is home. The fifth is your neighbor. The octive is your friend across the street. The third is your woman... that's what gives you the emotion. The second is like driving lost through the ghetto... you just gotta hit the gas and get the Hell out of there before you get shot by a drug dealer.

That's perhaps the best music lesson I've ever seen.

The third is my woman eh? Does that mean a little vibrato and we're having sex? hahahaha

LOL! Well I was trying to behave for once. So, I left out the parts about the diminished fifth being your evil ex-girlfreind and the sixth is like you girlfriends sister. You better be good if your going to do it or you'll get caught with your pants down!

: )

Dave

LMAO!!

I'm scared to ask about the Minor 2nd.

The root is home. The fifth is your neighbor. The octive is your friend across the street. The third is your woman... that's what gives you the emotion. The second is like driving lost through the ghetto... you just gotta hit the gas and get the Hell out of there before you get shot by a drug dealer.

That is the ultimate description! OMFG. Can I quote you on that?

Sure David quote away. I didn't copyright it yet....LOL! It's always nice when someone asks though. I saw an acticle I wrote pop up on myspace, but the guy gave me credit for it so that was cool.

Dave

I love the way these threads take on a life of their own. Thanks to everyone for the help. I have a new appreciation for the third, and I will definitely limit my time in the ghetto.

Wow. All this is great advice. Loved the neighborhood analogies. I went back last night and played some of the lines that I had been playing and I believe I'm just spending too much time on the third. Going outside the neighborhood does make things more interesting. As far as "playing by the book", I play with very seasoned musicians and I don't want to screw up, so I use very conventional approaches (the KISS method, keep it simple stupid). Makes for some boring lines, but they work on a very basic level.

On 3, note length could well be a source of the distasteful factor. Try some real brief ones: see what happens.

Bro, if you are playing with experienced musicians they should have some time & patience for some experimental/growth "mistakes". I suggest asking them if you can use one song in ten as a "screw-around" song; one where you can try different things out. (Or something like that; just let them know why you ask.) Watch for smiles & frowns & the "hmmm"s.