Well, in a nutshell - it's like this : The only thing that matters to record execs is the bottom line. Talent doesn't always have to be a part of the "picture". It a "what's cool and trendy and phat and all that at the moment" kind of mentality. And some "artist" fuel that mentality by jumping on the bandwagon and doing only what's cool at the moment ( like your guitarist friend at school ). "You don't need all that music crap"?!? IMO, that's the equivalent of saying that you don't REALLY have to know how to play your instrument - you don't have to have any talent - I cool for me to absolutely suck at my instrument and it doesn't matter if anything resembling music, comes out of it.

Yes musicianship is important - but convincing record execs and people with your "guitatrist friends" mentality of that fact, is like talking to a brick wall. And things aren't likely to change. As long as the music buying public is buying "crap", that's what the industry is going to produce - Because, "crap" is where the money is. This is not to say that EVERYTHING that's out there now is "crap" ( I like Alicia Keys - she's actually talented ), but there's not a lot of material that I would be in a rush to purchase.

Maybe I'm just too old and not hip enough, but back in my day, music was music. It came from the heart. A song didn't have to have profanity in it to appeal to the youger set. The artist's didn't neccessarily have to have an "image". Look at Berry Gordy and Motown. Music video's weren't as prevalent in the early days of the label. People would buy the music because it sounded good - not because the artist looked cool in some damned video. The Temptations didn't need a video to convince the listening audience that "My Girl" was a good song. Just hearing the bass intro was get people off their feet. That's MUSIC!!!

OK, I'm off of my soap box now. And no "hate responses" to this post please. This is simply one mans opinion and is not intended to offend anyone!

I agree. Just look at the decline of Jazz. Here is a form of music that is truly for musicians, and to me is incredibly exciting to listen to. Yet it continues to be a dying art form. A better question is: How many people only hear music as opposed to listening to it? Most I think. This is why one might hear alot of the same music recycled over and over again and not even know it. Or even care. Some may actually like it. And there is nothing wrong with any of it. In fact one might benifit from embracing forms a music they might not especially care for. The truth you need not learn to find something new. Maybe you should suggest your guiarist friend take this type of attitude.

The media and M.T.V..& V.H.1....You have to have a certain " Look"...Payday Daddy was turned down by an agent because we don't have the " LOOK"..I.e...screw experience and years of playing live, producing and writing original music to fill 2 cd's...we are all in our 40's and therefore...to old..

And there you have it. Proof once again that talent doesn't matter. Stupid agents.

Age shouldn't matter. But lets be honest, no one over the age of 30 is going to have an easy time getting anywhere. Unless your Fred Durst. But he acts and dresses like he is still in high school. But there is a certian dignity with DIY that you can't get by "playing the game". This has left me wondering if the band I am with is the right fit for me.

Think about it...how many new bands or singers that have found fame are fat, ugly, over 30? None...Unless you are like Elton, Aerosmith, Stones..etc..that started out a long time ago and have been able to keep up,,Watch MTV, VH1 and see if you can find anyone that is overweight, ugly...there are NONE! That's what's wrong with music today.Unless you are a size 2, 38 C cup, perfect hair and teeth, it ain't going to happen.

While channel surfing a while back, I stumbled upon a program called "Making The Band" ( or something like that ) on MTV - which is a channel that I ordinarily don't look at. They were putting together a "girl group" - a Spice Girls kind of thing. They had the auditions and there was one girl who could really sing. The girl was "BAD". She wasn't chosen because she didn't have the "right look" ( healthy ). Like I said in my initial response to this thread, it's all about "image". Forget raw talent.

weell, i dont think there's something wrong with music, i mean i play the bass just for the sake of it, it's fun and that's all i need in return.
I'm years old, im fat... so?
they can take me away from the "music", but they can't take the music away from me.
aagghhhh, can't believe i just said that.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but you're not exactly famous either.

well, here we've got a good point,
What does fame have to do with music??
i don't know. i mean, i'm not playing music to be a famous guy. I told it before, i play just for the sake of doing it and i'll continue , wether i become famous or not.

fat. ugly. over 30

Tenacious D.

Oh, man, I love Tenacious D- they're the Spinal Tap of our generation.

Video killed the radio star.

Sad but very true.

Right on! I think Grace Slick said something about that when she said there's probably some fat girl in Cleveland that can sing circles around Natalie Imbruglia but she won't get noticed.
Making records has RARELY been about talent. It's been about timing. Elvis was the perfect example. He walked into a recording studio to lay down a couple of songs for his mother's B-Day and WHOOSH - he's a sensation!

Someone needs to start a music label that signs musical artists based upon their musical artistry. Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is. Sadly someone starting such a label would have to have deep pockets. What has changed music into this vain and commercial beast it has become? I think maybe the roots lie in glam rock which was the first style of music to be named because of a certain look of the artist. That's just my guess.

It all revolves around money, Josh my good man. A label like that would be nice. I don't think one would need deep pockets, however. Just artists committed to putting out a good product as opposed to a radio ready single or two. But,alas, even that is a tall order.

There are labels that do that. They are called indie labels. There are even a lot of bands on indie labels that get airplay- on college stations, PRI stations, etc.

pre-fab bands are nothing new, by the way.

But if you really, really want to know what's wrong with music, you have to look past the music industry at pop culture in general. American culture in general. This bad music is popular for the same reason americans spend so much money on fast food, crummy cars, and shlocky "art" (ie Thomas Kincade). It's why, when we watch the news, shows like "Celebrity Boxing" get, often, more and better coverage than what our government is doing.

as for listening, who has time for listening? Between taking the 3.5 kids to school, after school activities, working all day, whipping up the Sunset "recipe of the month" for dinner and sitting in traffic in between all that, who's gonna listen? We have 30 seconds to be heard. And, again, whos gonna want to listen if they have any kind of discriminating taste..

And when you send your demo off to the A&R people.. you have 30 seconds to get yourself across.

"that music stuff" Well, i'm not sure what you expect, since music and arts funding has been dropped so much that most schools don't even offer either one any more, but you can watch the football teams in new uniforms every year. Why's that.. well, people repeatedly have shot down ways to fund them. Voters, that is. Your parents and grandparents. So thank them.

blah. i'm done. I've ranted about it before.

Recording industry profits in the US continue to drop. The recording industry giants continue to fight in court for control of mechanical rights in new media over the Internet, as their old distribution network dwindles (or just changes, we'll see). I'm not utopian enough to believe that the industry will become decentralized -- we still have a mass culture, albeit one that has been carved into niches -- but there is some kind of change going on that will favor different distribution networks for music in digital formats. I can't help but think that easy access to to information will allow people to become exposed to different types of music than they would otherwise ordinarily hear. Look at this site! QED.
Matthew

yeah they continue to drop. They sell $20 CDs with at most, three good songs on them. Of course people are running away.

The industry probably will not change much, as far as disribution goes. Their current system has been so good to them for so long they can't bear to try anything else. The record companies, the big ones, will be their own undoing.

Actually, I recently looked into this in detail and record industry profits have NOT dropped - in general terms they have actually SKY-ROCKETED.

The thing is, profits are now spread across the industry. It's no longer one or two big labels making all the money. In general - bigger labels are making LESS money, and the smaller, indie labels are making more.

Napster and Morpheus have actually added to record industry profits by exposing people to music they would NEVER hear on commercial radio. And people are actually buying those records...but the major labels who signed acts like Creed, NSYNC and Mariah Carey don't benefit.

What HAS declined, in a big way, is sales of singles. Because if people only want one song and not the entire album, they'll just download that one song or rip an MP3 copy of someone else's CD. Still, this has not actually lowered record industry profits on the whole.

We're here saying that the radio stations and big labels don't have what we want - but we're not the only ones. I've purchased about 25 CDs this year...perhaps a 1/3 of which were major label releases. The big labels can blame Morpheus and Napster all they want for their decline in profits, but the truth is, they're just not selling that much good stuff anymore. They need to fire their A&R men, or something...

Interesting. That makes a lot of sense.

case in point was the post i had about Grand Champeen. Saw them featured on Audiogalaxy and grabbed some of their stuff. i was impressed enough ( i really dig these guys) that i ran down to my local record store (as opposed to the dorkasses at On Cue in the mall or CDNow) and ordered the CD. It's awesome. I never would have heard them on the radio.

Screw major labels! I used to intern at Columbia Records. There is so much wheeling and dealing that there is hardly any talk about the music, unless it's to determine what market it should be promoted to. I have had the distinct displeasure of being around when a band got the notice that they were dropped (never want to see that again). Sad thing, these guys were good, but they just didn't have the look or the "hook" to grab the audience with their first album.

With technology as it is now, why bother courting a major label? Now musicians have the technology to DIY all the way (CD packaging, digital recording, etc).There are definately advantages to being signed to a major label, but you better have teflon skin and a good lawyer if you do.

My two cents.

Isn't that basically what indie labels are?

When I said I'd like to see a label more focused on the music than on anything else, I meant the major label. They have one really distinct and really important advantage over indie labels, tons of cash! Artists have access to this cash. More money means more resources and studio time.

Well let's start. *Thinks* OK, first off, music today just sucks. Only thing good on the radio anymore is Classic Rock (ex. AC-DC, Maiden, Van Halen). *Thinks Agian* Oh ya, not to mention ceezy a$$ guitar solos (ex. Alien Antfarm), Sencless Music, Rap Stars who write one song and make millions. THing that jacks me is the other day i was listening To Pink Floyd, and my yonger sister came in and said "whats this crap." "CRAP!!!! CRAPPP! This ain't crap! BRITNEY SPEARS SINGING I LOVE ROCK'N'ROLL IS CRAP! WAIT THAT AIN'T CRAP ITS S**T!!" Was my reply. Too bad, as soon as the old skool died out, people became gulable and pulled into stupid things.
Another thing? Why do all Rap singers have 20 Chicks (90% of them fake)dancing (oh wait nm, they aren't dancing they are just moving there hips back and forth) behind them. WAHHH! *IS MAD NOW* Well thats it, I don't wanna say no more. *Lights Up a Smoke*
Peace,
Christopher
P.S. A good Record Lable to go with is roadrunner, they take a lot of metal/new rock

Lesa PLEASE, pleeease... god I don't have any strength left in me anymore. If I read 'Payday Daddy' just one more time I'll blow my brains all over the place. Right next to your name those got to be THE most mentioned words in these forums. Mostly by you but, still, we've gotten to a point where there is actually more mentioning of 'Payday Daddy' than of 'bass' and I just can't take it, somebody please kill me? lol

*BANG*

KABOOM!

Don't worry Lesa - we got your back! Hehe!

Nope, sorry but that will never happen..This is why I get paid the big bucks ( Yeah right) for managing and booking PAYDAY DADDY...How else are you supposed to get your name out?? Hummmmm...Why do you think PAYDAY DADDY works so much and can charge $1000 - 1500 a night..It's because all the club owners have heard of PAYDAY DADDY...PAYDAY DADDY is the most well known band on the Olympic Penninsula...you will never get anywhere if you don't speak up and let people know who you are..I am glad YOU are not booking PAYDAY DADDY or any other band..they would never work at all...Do you think bands can sell themselves without someone advertising them? There was a time 3 years ago that I was booking 5 bands..why? They came to me, because I am good a promotion, and managing....so my advice to you? If you don't like it, don't read about it.

**ROFLMAO** Hey, Lesa, what was the name of your band again???

Yesterday it was PAYDAY DADDY....today it was PAYDAY DADDY,,and tomorrow it will be PAYDAY DADDY...Next month it will be PAYDAY DADDY...and at the holidays, it will still be PAYDAY DADDY...next year? Yep..PAYDAY DADDY...as it has been the last 7 years.

LOL......Payday Daddy, eh! That reminds me of a show I saw once about a Harley customizer named Jesse James... He had a dream one night about a new tatoo he wanted to get... It was a big dollar sign, with "Pay up Sucker" written through it! He has it tatooed on the palm of his hand! OUCH...!

Griz...... :)

You know I wouldn't mind but... Payday Daddy?
It sounds like a title for some gay version of a Terminator-like movie: "Payday Daddy XXVII!! He's BACK, and he's gayer than EVER!"

lol

A " Payday Daddy " is a man that pays and gives gifts as a trade for sex with a woman. It has nothing to do with being gay..sorry to disappoint you.
We got the name from the 1927 blues song by Elzadie Robinson..Blind Lemon Johnson played guitar on the recording ..here are the words to the song,,

The man I love , he never gives me a dime.
The man I love, he never gives me a dime.
But there's a man I don't love,
he gives me money all the time.

I call him my monkey man, he got no sense at all.
I call him my monkey man, he got no sense at all.
But he takes care of my sweet thang, and honey that ain't all.

My Payday Daddy's money, buys all my sweet man's clothes.
My Payday Daddy's money, buys all my sweet mans clothes.
He's got him 2 new outfits, my monkey man , he pay for those.

When Saturday come...my Payday Daddy, he on time.
When Saturday comes...my Payday Daddy's he's on time.
He comes then gives me some money, I give it to that man of mine.

On one of your songs why don't you start with a tape playing that part of the song...you know sounding really scratchy and old...and then launch into one of your songs? That would be cool.

We do a modern version of this song on our cd " Convergence Zone"...we didn't put it up on mp3.com because it is not an original...

That's actually a really cool idea that Josh came up with. That would sound pretty cool at the beginning of your set, Lesa. Have you thought about trying that?

We also do this song live..it's a cool old blues tune out of the key of Bb...with harmonica and honky tonk piano...

Easy there big fella. We know you're just dying for a movie like that, maybe even a starring role. Keep dreaming.

I can imagine Arnold fighting bad guys in a thong

Wait... This is what Commando is all about.

Sounds like the band's moniker is appropriate. BTW, do you like playing music or booking bands better? I'm getting to the point that the social aspects please me nearly as much. I get to schmooze, MC and all the rest. Still there's no question which one is done to allow the other: I book the band because I want to play, not the other way around.

How many cd's did you sold?Do you have the benific
help of a distribution or record company?

I am guessing here, but I would think 400 total..That's all 3 of our cd's...We sell them to friends, family, on mp3.com, and at gigs..We really don't put alot of effort into it...

My first band was a cover band that only did 60s and 70s guitar stuff like Robin Trower, Santana, Clapton, Cream, and so on... we got told once that we needed to play top 40 stuff if we were going to get hired. That was my first exposure to the mass mentality toward music - forget about good music or talented musicians, if you play crap a zillion times, people will start liking it. I think that we all agree that fewer and fewer people these days care about the music and more about image. Popular radio, in my opinion, is just plain painful to listen to.